On charity

[teaberryblue]

Good things today: My parents gave me my Christmas presents early, because we are having a lot of people coming for Christmas and it gets crazy. So today, I got mine.

I had been saving up to buy a proper television for a while now-- the TV I've had for the past two years is actually smaller than my computer monitor. Which is fine for TV watching, but not so fine for playing Wii games, which are hard to make out. But due to one thing or another, I had to spend the money I had been saving for a TV.

My parents totally bought me one. So now I have a 32 inch Sony LCD that just barely fits on top of my bookshelf. But it fits, and it's big and shiny and I couldn't be more pleased. I hooked up the cable today; tomorrow's goal is to hook up the DVD player and the Wii.

My other gift is one of those orthopedic memory foam pillows that is like ten times more supporting of your head than a normal pillow. I sneak my parents' memory foam pillows whenever I can because my neck goes out of joint at the drop of a hat, so now I have one of my own. It has a kind of chemical-y smell, which I am hoping goes away? But I figure I can spray some lavender on it or something and then it will be all good.

When I got back into the city, I had brunch, which was Irish Breakfast, with my parents, saw Frost/Nixon, which was very good, and now I think the only movie I want to see that's out is Doubt. And then I went to the grocery store.

They have one of those Christmas trees where you're meant to get a gift for a needy child and bring it to the store? So I went up to pick out a child to get a gift for. I pulled an ornament off the tree, read it...and saw the child in question was asking for a Wii.

Yes, a Wii.

I was completely shocked. I mean, I don't mind spending $30 or 40 on a child I don't know in the spirit of the holidays, but a Nintendo Wii? Most not-needy people I know can't afford to just pop out and buy one of those. When I was a kid, growing up in one of the wealthiest areas in the country, it took my parents three years to save up to buy me and my brother a classic NES. And we were not what one would consider needy by any stretch of the imagination. The Wii I have now my mother bought for me as a thank-you gift for helping out with some stuff for my brother. If my mother hadn't bought me a Wii, I couldn't have afforded it.

So I picked another ornament.

Another Wii.

I picked another ornament.

This one was asking for an XBox.

I picked another ornament.

Nintendo DS.

I picked another ornament.

Another Wii.

I tried a few more, and every single one of them was for an item that cost more than a hundred dollars, most of them being video game related. At this point, my WTFery was so strong that I stopped looking. I just-- I realize that the point of this exercise is to buy these kids something they want and not something they need, but the average middle class kid's parents can't afford these kinds of gifts for their own kids, forget for someone else's. And it's not as if they had multiple requests. Like, I would have been cool with the kids asking for the Wii if it had had another gift under $50 OR a Wii, in case somebody wealthy happened to pick their ornament and didn't mind spending $250. I see nothing wrong with dreaming big. But to me, this just dampened the entire spirit of giving I had been in, to see such extravagant wishes without really any thought given to whether the people willing to give could afford those presents.

So then I went to do my grocery shopping, and I don't remember whether I ever posted about this, but way back in like, March or April, I had some problems with a manager at my grocery store that was a half-block from my then-apartment, and I stopped going there, choosing to walk to the one that was seven blocks away instead. The one with the nasty manager is still closer to my current apartment, and I have been there a couple times when I need to buy heavier items, but I try to avoid it.

Well, that's the store I went to tonight. I left the Tree of Unreasonable Demands and started into the store, only to see Nasty Manager push a row of shopping carts head-on into an elderly customer, who cried out in surprise at being nearly knocked over by a 20-something guy and a lot of shopping carts.

"Watch where you're going!" Nasty Manager shouted at the old guy.
Old guy had happened to be facing the other direction, there was no way he would have seen Nasty Manager coming. He said something to that affect and then told the Nasty Manager that he had nearly run him over.
"Well, that's because you were in the way!" Nasty Manager shouted at him.
"You could have asked me to move," the old man pointed out, very reasonably but clearly getting frustrated.
"I just told you to watch where you were going!" Nasty manager snapped.

At this point, I walked out, in favor of going to the farther-away grocery store. Ugh.

The trouble with Nasty Manager is that because he's a manager, there is never anyone else on staff above him to lodge a complaint with when he is in the store. I am thinking about writing to the regional headquarters for the store. I see no reason why, when so many decent, hardworking people are out of work and would kill for a manager's position, for this guy to be employed instead.

Comments

[applespicy.livejournal.com]

What a piece that manager is - and not a good piece. A bottom of the barrel piece that nobody uses or wants.

Also, Wiis on the Angel tree? WTF, children. My dad picked us out an Angel this year, and she just wants a Barbie doll and some clothes.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I do some kind of toy drive every year and usually the present range from, like, Barbies and action figures to board games and books to maybe boots or a sweat shirt? I've never HAD to pick a second ornament, except for one year when the first one was something my mom thought was objectionable-- I was little at the time, and I think it was for a toy that was very violent or sexist? I don't know. But it's never occurred to me that I might have to look at my ornament to see if I can afford it, because the requests I've always gotten in the past have been reasonable. I was like, holy fuck.

[liret.livejournal.com]

That is why I don't like the general gift trees - mostly I would see requests for games rather then the actual system, which is only like $50 - but that' still a lot. And I had trouble thinking anyone with a game system more expensive then anything I owned at the time really needed me to buy them stuff.

But, giving people the benifit of the doubt, if you're not used to having any luxuries, a wii may not seem much more unreasonable then a movie or something. Kids don't always understand money - but I would think there would be parent imput somewhere in this.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree-- if you already have a game system that most people can't afford, why the hell are you considered 'needy'?

[cheshire23.livejournal.com]

Probably because of the really dumb-ass ways that a lot of public benefits work.

You get a big cash dump in the form of EITC and child tax credits when tax season comes (assuming someone in your family was working at all) - between federal and state credits, with one child, we got almost $5000 in credits for tax year 2006 because John didn't work at all and I only worked for about five months. In some situations, there might also be a massive back payment from SSI or SSDI. However, many MANY public benefit programs (including SSI) require having less than $2000 in savings.

So what do people end up doing? Well, since we weren't getting any public benefits at that point, that turned into the closing costs for our house. Some people in rural areas spend down their balances by repairing or replacing cars. However, many people end up spending down by buying big-ticket consumer goods that can be sold or pawned later if needed. I can totally understand why people do this, especially in areas where $2000 isn't enough to pack up and move elsewhere if you need to.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

Okay, that's just stupid. Not on their part, although if it were me, I would probably just put that money into gift cards for things I could buy later, but on the part of the government? I mean, shouldn't we be encouraging people to save?

[cheshire23.livejournal.com]

The way government benefits are structured is made of fail on SO many levels. I wish I could find the website that demonstrates this, but if you're a single parent with two kids, you can "break even" in a fairly sustainable way in much of upstate NY if you make about $20K/year because you'll be eligible for EITC, subsidized child care, Child Health Plus/Family Health Plus, and possibly even food stamps and HEAP. As you make more, you lose eligibility such that your next break-even point is around $40K/year.

And while I can understand not providing benefits to people with no income but tons of assets, that $2000 limit stayed the same for about 15 years and is only recently being looked at again. That only reinforces the "spend 'till it's gone" mentality - if you don't spend it, the government will take it (or will kick you off of Medicaid or your disabled child off of SSI, which is far more dangerous).

As for the gift cards idea, that makes sense to a point but could be a problem if what you have a gift card for is not what you need (or if what you may need later can't be paid via gift card, such as utilities - where I used to live, even credit cards could not be used to pay most utility bills, and I've sold CDs and textbooks to pay those bills in a pinch. Plus, at least you get the enjoyment of the big-ticket item while you have it. I know some people using tax refunds to pay credit cards clear, then using the cards the rest of the year, but that assumes you could get the credit card in the first place or that between all the fees and the insane interest rates, the card was even any help during the year. It's all trade-offs, sometimes really weird ones.

[iheartpotatoes.livejournal.com]

I've helped homeless men with iPods before. It's still a helluva lot cheaper than many essentials (like a roof over your head, or groceries for the month, etc.) and to be honest, if I were every in a needy position, I'd have a hard time giving up my luxury items as well. For example, I'd wear an old pair of shoes until they ran ragged if it meant I could afford an iPod rather than buy myself newer, better shoes.

And, to be honest, if a child gets a big-ticket item like a Wii, they are less likely to grow out of it or lose interest in it over a long period of time. Kids outgrow clothes, certain toys, etc., but video game systems have constant replay value. Even if you can't afford the newest games, you can always rent them.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

That's all well and good, but most middle-class families can't afford these kinds of gifts, and that's what bothers me about it. The problem isn't the kid wanting a Wii, it's that the vast majority of people looking at that tree for a gift to buy for someone couldn't afford to buy a Wii for their own child, let alone someone else's.

And on the shoes/iPod thing, I don't have an iPod, because I don't consider myself in a position to be able to afford something like that when it's not a necessity. I could have chosen to ask for an iPod instead of a TV for Christmas, or something like that, but there's no way I could ever make a purchase like that for myself and justify it over something I actually need, like paying the heating bill or buying a jacket.

[bunnymcfoo.livejournal.com]

we had a girl on our school's tree who wanted an ipod shuffle, and her sister wanted a porcelain doll - if i'd had any budget this year, i'd have snagged that one. i um. it might just be me? but i don't think it's really out of line for kids to ask for something that costs a bit more. they know that they're not likely to get it, and that they're likely to be one of the kids being bought something at the last minute by someone working for the agency. idk, it's all jumbled up in my head.

weirdly, depending on their age, it's very likely that their parents or someone working for that agency filled their tag out. the two years that i was on a charity tree, i wasn't asked what i wanted. my mom put down what she thought i'd want the first year, and the second year the agency filled it out at the last minute. *hands*


edited because i just went and priced wiis, and holy fuck, i thought those were cheaper. /o\

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

Porcelain dolls aren't too expensive-- if you know where to shop, you can usually find one for about $30.

We had this program like charity trees when I was little? But they would actually have a 'Santa' come and deliver your present on Christmas Eve--it was usually a guy from the firehouse. They had a rule that all the kids in the same house of the same age had to get the same present, so that nobody would feel treated unfairly. For a while they had done all the kids the same age, period, got the same present, if you were in the program, but that didn't work out because sometimes it was something some kids already had. So then they switched it and you could request presents by house...one of my cousins was my age, so we would always get the same thing. My mom always told them what to bring, because there was no way my cousin and I would have agreed. We usually got crafts projects.

I don't mind it if kids ask for something more expensive, as long as they also specify something cheaper. Like, if you get someone super-rich who can afford a Wii? Go for it. But otherwise, the person getting your card just feels bad.

[cheshire23.livejournal.com]

*headdesk*

One year, my downstairs neighbors had a donated-by-Salvation-Army Christmas and...no. Nothing of the sort.

IIRC, back when Modest Needs used to do Christmas help, it usually came to around $50 per household member plus extra for tree (if needed) and dinner.

I could almost understand/accept a Wii or similar as a shared gift for the family, but...gah. It's not like we in the field are able to do that for our families either.

I'm particularly frustrated because thanks to the short check plus ice storm damages (that our insurance may or may not cover entirely) I'm really having to try rabbit-out-of-hat tricks the first Christmas Alex really understands what's going on. Thankfully, she hasn't asked for anything super-expensive - this time.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

Oh, when I was Alex's age, we used to actually re-gift for Christmas because my parents couldn't afford to buy new things? So I might get one new toy, and then I would get some toys that my older cousins were growing out of, and then I would get a few presents that my parents either made or passed down-- I got my mom's old Fisher Price toys one year, for example. And I was always really excited because the toys always came with the story of how SHE got them and the different stories she used to play out with the different characters and people.

And editing to say, yeah. It doesn't bother me that the kids are hoping for it. It bothers me because it's something that most average families can't afford, either, and you're pretty much telling people that their goodwill isn't good enough for you.

[cheshire23.livejournal.com]

She's getting one particularly shiny new present (a small, very inexpensive digital camera - mostly so she doesn't break John's) and the rest is going to be either stuff she needs anyway (hat and mittens, maybe new sheets) or used toys and books.

[thaliontholwen.livejournal.com]

I kind of wonder when those tags were filled out--like if the tags were filled out by older kids themselves in an after school program or something? I could just see one kid saying "I want a Wii/Xbox/DS!" and everyone else following suit because they liked how it sounded. Like a real life meme or something.

And yeah, the chemically smell does go out of those orthopedic pillows. A little febreze does wonders in making it go away faster, though. ;)

[shinyredtype.livejournal.com]

I was going to say this. I know that for the Winter Wishes program that my office runs, the kids filling out the letters are general kids in shelters or at after-school programs at community centers. You can tell when they wrote the letters together because they do all ask for the same thing.

We get a big mix of requests that range from socks/underwear to video game systems. Because we realize that some of the kids do ask for really expensive items, we provide a list of gifts under $40 that we suggest the donors purchase if they can't afford to/don't want to buy the more expensive gift.

I realize that part of Tea's point is that it's crazy for kids to be asking for the more expensive items, but...well, it happens. They see something and are excited about it, and they don't necessarily have a parent there telling them what is reasonable or not.

(P.S. to Tea: http://www.nycares.org/volunteer/annual_events/winter_wishes/index.php)

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't feel like this is the fault of the kids, although I'm kind of shocked, because to me it's like having someone offer to buy me dinner and deliberately ordering the most expensive thing on the menu. But I really feel like some adult should have been there telling them that they are not in the minority in not being able to afford a Wii and that maybe they should ask for something a little more realistic, or they'll likely not get anything they want. Or they could at least have a fund so people could go in on one together rather than setting it up so it's one-giver-one-gift. If it were paying $20 toward a video game system, especially buying a game system for an after school program or a shelter where it's not going to just one kid, I'd be much happier doing it.

[elikrei.livejournal.com]

There was a little piece in our local newspaper for Thanksgiving about some charities and what they would particularly like, which I thought was a great idea. One gave handmade blankets to children who had to have long stays in hospital and wanted blankets or yarn. I don't have the time for a blanket (I'm barely going to finish my boyfriend's mother's scarf), but I figured I could buy them yarn, especially since I get a 25% discount so my money would go further for them than for another charity. So I bought seven skeins of this gorgeous plum wine colour in the "ultra-soft" version or something.

But, yeah. I like thaliontholwen's suggestion as to why they all said Wiis. How frustrating.

[twowishesleft.livejournal.com]

Most kids don't understand the value of things like that. They just see the TV and know a lot of kids their age have them.

[twowishesleft.livejournal.com]

This is assuming that they're mostly relatively young.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

These were definitely not written in 'little kid' handwriting and most of them specified the age of the child on them-- they were all around 10-16. And most of the kids I know who don't have a lot of money are much more aware of the value of things than kids whose parents can afford to just go out and buy things for them-- I had to save up to buy the things most of my friends had when I was a kid, so I always knew exactly how much things cost and how much it was in relation to other items. I mean, I still remember now that my American Girls doll cost $54 in 1986 because I saved the money to buy her on my own because my parents couldn't afford her.

[twowishesleft.livejournal.com]

My Furby cost me $32 with tax.

That's sad that they would think it's OK to write something like a Wii. Like... really sad.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

I don't know if it's a situation where they just have no clue how well-off the people filling the gifts are? I'm still not sure if the card were filled out by the kids themselves or by grown-ups, but I still feel like somebody should have explained to the kids that those presents probably weren't going to get filled and maybe they should put on an alternative gift as well.

[twowishesleft.livejournal.com]

Like tsusilver said... it could just be a pipe dream... but if that's the case, then an alternate gift definitely should have been suggested to them. I'm sure the adults want these kids to get game systems just as much as the kids do, but they know better. Or they should, anyway.

[crazy-megan.livejournal.com]

That's unfortunate. We always did Be an Angel campaigns when I was in school and everyone in my class would bring in money and then a few people would be nominated to go out and buy everything. You would raise a max of $50 per kid and if you raised more then you got a second kid.

Whenever I've done stuff on my own, I've just donated to a generic toy drive instead of picking a specific kid because I know I don't have the money for anything really significant.

But I agree with some of the others that they were probably all sitting together or something.

[lorryl.livejournal.com]

I noticed that definate trend when I was picking a child to buy for this year from our local needy children foundation. Some wanted a Nintendo DS, or gift certificates to the skateboarding shop, or brand name this or that, while some kids just wanted like...underwear, or a thick, warm blanket.

It was a little bit heartbreaking. I ended up selecting a 10 year old little girl who was horse crazy, and bought her a few of the nice Breyer model horses. I hope she likes them.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've been giving through these kinds of programs pretty much since my family was able to not be getting gifts through these programs-- so, since I was about nine or ten? And this is the first year that I was confronted with this kind of situation-- I've never gotten a request card that made me do a double-take before.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

What bothers me about it isn't wanting to have one, it's that the vast majority of the people picking ornaments from the tree can't afford to buy them, either. It's basically creating a situation where no one is happy because the kids won't get the gifts they want and the people trying to do something nice are made to feel shitty because they're being asked for presents that they couldn't afford to buy for their own kids, let alone someone else's. I wanted to do something nice for someone and I was put in a position where I couldn't because they chose to ask for something unreasonable without offering an alternative.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you can. When I was getting my Christmas presents through charity programs as a kid, my mother always made it very clear that we were not to ask for anything that cost more than $20 from the charity program. There were a hell of a lot of presents I wanted but that I was told I couldn't ask for-- in fact, I specifically remember being told that I could not ask for a radio. That didn't bother me, because I understood that someone else was going out of their way to buy me a present. But you also had to specify-- one year, my brother, whose name and gender were both on the card, needed a sweater, and he got given a pink sweater clearly meant for a girl. Which is upsetting-- you're not glad to get something like that; you're just embarrassed and it especially reminds you that you're getting goodwill presents.

I think whatever adults are responsible for handling the requests really should be asking the kids to put a second gift on the card in cases like that, and explain that if the person who gets the card can't afford that present, they might not get anything at all, or they might get something they'd hate. And it is really disappointing when the only present you get all year is something horrible.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

Maybe console games are pervasive among people you know? They are among people I know online, but certainly not anyone I know in real life, and I assume that's largely because people who are online are people who can afford internet access. I have one, my brother has one, and I have one cousin who has one, and in my family, I think that's it? I have one friend from my old office who has a Wii? It's a very big deal among my friends if someone has a console.

I did grow up getting my clothes through charity, up until I was about nine. I wore secondhand underwear, and my clothes were all either secondhand, or home-made by my mother, with the exception of my Christmas dress when I was seven, which I still own because it was the only store-bought piece of clothing I had. So it really upsets me on a personal level you're trying to tell me what it's like as if I don't know first-hand. I do. That's why this whole tree thing bugs me, because I would never have asked for anything like that in a million years when I was a kid.

[twowishesleft.livejournal.com]

I want to tell you, just so you know, that I completely understand your side of the argument. I do think it's OK for the kid to hope. A Wii is cool to wish for, but I think the kids within the demographic that Tea is talking about definitely know the difference between wishing for one and expecting someone to go out a buy it for them. I feel like putting something on a tree like that is just pushing it a little too far... which kids are wont to do, but it's got to be wildly frustrating when you're trying to do something charitable and you're faced with that kind of situation.

[comedychick.livejournal.com]

Wow. Is anyone helping these kids to write their requests? Do they realise that even if someone was generous enough to buy them a console, they aren't likely to be able to actually play anything on it, if their parents can't even afford to buy gifts at all? That's sort of insane.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

Well, they mostly come with games, and I really only play the game that came with my Wii...so I think if you've got it, it's fun enough on its own. But yeah, that was my problem with the whole thing was that it didn't seem like whoever was monitoring these was really managing kids' expectations for what they could get.

[crissykitty.livejournal.com]

"Tree of Unreasonable Demands"....har har I literally lol'd. At work (and other places around town) we have an Angel Tree, but normally they are full of tags with requests for clothes, a doll, a racecar, etc. Each kid had 4 tags on the tree: 2 for clothes, 2 for toys. The general expectation is a gift for around $20-30. I've never seen any requests for video game systems. I would think that even if you could afford to buy one of those kids a game system, wouldn't it be better to buy gifts for like 7 other kids? Although, it might be nice to donate a game system to a place like St Jude's or something.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's what I was talking to liret about-- if I had $250 to buy things for kids who couldn't get gifts of their own, I'd rather buy 5 $50 presents than one present for one kid. Or, yeah, donate something like that to a shelter or after school program or somewhere where more than just one kid would get to use it.

[crissykitty.livejournal.com]

Plus, as someone was saying above, even if you got a system it's not likely that the parents would be able to afford the games/accessories for it. That's why when I buy gifts for the Angel Tree I even like to try to avoid buying gifts that require batteries - those things get expensive, too!